PRONI stakeholder forum report from Belfast

Yesterday (Friday June 2nd) I attended the regular stakeholder forum for the Public Record Office of Northern Ireland (www.nidirect.gov.uk/proni) in beautiful Belfast. The following is a quick summary of recent developments at the archive.

We first heard from Lorraine Bourke on cataloguing. Work continues on the papers of the Brabazon Sharpe family of Galway and Mayo, which are being catalogued under D4523, and also on the Northern Ireland Women's Football Association records from 1973-1993. Another major new accession is a series of posters collected by Northern Ireland civil rights activist, and amateur historian and archivist, Fred Heatley, who died earlier this year. These document a range of political issues over the years on everything from elections in the province to the hunger strikes, and are being catalogued under D4629. Papers from the Belfast Co-Op Society's former York Street premises, including admin records, photos, etc. have been acquired, and these are being catalogued under D3895.

Another interesting project is work in progress to preserve the Prisons Memory Archive of about 175 walk and talk oral history interviews of from people who were at the Maze/Long Kesh, and Armagh prisons, including staff, chaplains, prisoners. This is a collaboration between PRONI, Queen's University and the Prisons Management Group, which as  Heritage Lottery Funded project was formally launched on March 29th. Posts are currently being filled to get this underway, but the plan is to work on 12 recordings a month, and to have them available for consultation in due course at the archive, and posisbly at relevant access hubs across the country.

We had a brief update also on plans to update the catalogue inside the archive (not the online version), with regards to accessing digitised holdings, such as some church records. One of the key points made about the length of time it takes to catalogue and make materials available for consultation was the lack of metadata that is supplied by those making deposits to the archive, which the archive has to address. Metadata is 'data about data' - e.g, you might gift a photograph to PRONI, but who is depcited within the photograph? That's the metadata bit!

Janet Hancock then gave us an overview of PRONI's plans to seek UK archive accreditation during 2017/18. This involves aspiring to reach key standards of work practice in three areas, namely  longevity, collections care, and stakeholder engagement, and essentially helps the archive to focus on which areas it needs to perhaps concentrate more on, and to recognise which areas it is already making good progress in. If PRONI achieves this accreditation, its standards would then be re-evaluated again every three years, to keep pushing for better practice. Anyone who holds an archive can apply for such accreditation.

We were informed that there is a possibility that the archive might seek to install library editions of some of the more popular genealogy websites. I asked how popular the usage of the four GENI (https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk) platforms at PRONI have been since they were made available - the system that allows you to search for the GRONI's birth, marriage and death events from Northern Ireland. The terminals (see below for a pic of the area where they are located) have been quite popular, particularly for those seeking post-Partition Northern Ireland records, which are not available on the free Irish Genealogy (www.irishgenealogy.ie) site, as well earlier pre-1922 records not yet available on the southern hosted platform. There are no plans to increase the number of terminals - not only has the IrishGenealogy site making many records available for free taken some pressure off expected demand, the new GRONI search room at Stranmillis is also now up and running. Four seems to be a good number at PRONI, so everyone's happy!

Stephen Scarth also updated us on the latest communications developments, the biggest development being PRONI's new Facebook site (see http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/proni-is-now-on-facebook.html). The plan is to try to put out posts at least a couple of times a day, on a range of things from news to interesting features from the archive. One other change which some may already have been advised of by email is that those who subscribe to the PRONI Express, the archive's newsletter, will have to re-subscribe, due to an update of the system. The plan is for this to become a monthly newsletter, and not so ad hoc - though Janet also advised that they weren't averse to still throwing in the occasional ad hoc edition!

Some other changes include a desire to try to produce four main 'headline events' per year at the archive, such as the current series of lectures commemorating the Messines in the First World War. If attending events at the archive, from now on you will need to book via Eventbrite.

Finally, we were taken on a tour behind the scenes of the archive's reprographics department, where we were told how some items were digitally enhanced or restored (and catalogued as a new item), as well as some of the work the department does to produce promotional materials for exhibitions, and projects such as the then and now photographic image mixes of key locations across time.

And below is a wee sneaky glimpse of the conservation area, which I snapped as I passed it...!

A great day in Belfast - topped off by my finally finding a record in the Registry of Deeds that actually concerns my family!

Visit Belfast - ye'll love it! :)

(With thanks to Stephen and the staff at PRONI)

Chris

My next 5 week Scottish Research Online course commences Sept 11th 2017 - details at https://www.pharostutors.com/details.php?coursenumber=102.
For details on my Scottish & Irish genealogy guide books, please visit http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/p/my-books.html.
For my genealogy research service, please visit http://www.ScotlandsGreatestStory.co.uk.

PRONI stakeholder forum update

I was unfortunately unable to attend the most recent stakeholder forum at the Public Record Ofice of Northern Ireland (www.nidirect.gov.uk/proni), but I have been kindly sent the minutes from the meeting. The following are a few highlights from current developments of interest for family historians:

New accessions to PRONI include papers of the Belfast Naturalists Club (with cataloguing to commence in early 2017), and a smaller collection relating to the life of Samuel J Edgar and the York Street Flax Spinning Company (one of my lot worked there, should be a useful set to look up!).

A significant amount of cataloguing was completed in the summer months on the Londonderry Papers (D3099), and likewise, cataloguing is ongoing on the papers of the Irish Council of Churches (D4602).

The new GIS mapping application (see http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/latest-news-from-proni-user-forum.html), which provides OS maps with historical information overlays, should be released imminently.

The archives new Rules and Fees legislation should come into force on 16th November 2016, though final approval has still be passed at the Assembly. This will be the first time that they have been revised since 2009, and amongst new changes there will be clearer rules, a Code of Conduct, and a new table of fees. Most significantly for users, photocopying will no longer be offered, with visitors allowed to use their own equipment to photograph documents, subject to signing a copying and declaration form. To be allowed to do this, users will have to sign an undertaking about copying and copyright awareness before any documents are issued.The facility to obtain high quality copies will still be available.

A conference with the Western Front Association is to be held on the 8th October 2016. A £10 admission fee will be charged by the WFA to cover lunch.

PRONI now has four terminals providing access to GRONI's Geni service, offeirng access to digitised civil registration birth, marriage and death records, up to the present day (unlike the online service, which has imposed closure periods for each category). See http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/proni-search-room-offers-access-to.html for more on this story.

Finally, PRONI’s new Director is Maeve Walls.

(With thanks to Gavin McMahon)

Chris
 
For details on my genealogy guide books, including A Beginner's Guide to British and Irish Genealogy, A Decade of Irish Centenaries: Researching Ireland 1912-1923, Discover Scottish Church Records (2nd edition), Discover Irish Land Records and Down and Out in Scotland: Researching Ancestral Crisis, please visit http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/p/my-books.html.

PRONI search room offers access to GRONI records

From the Public Record Office of Northern Ireland (www.nidirect.gov.uk/proni), major news about an enhancement that will further enhance the centre as Ireland's premier research resource:

Births/Deaths and Marriage Search service @ PRONI

PRONI has partnered with the General Register Office of Northern Ireland (GRONI) to bring a birth/death and marriage certificate search service to PRONI’s Public Search Room. It is now possible to search GRONI’s full database from 1845 right up to present day and should prove a valuable resource for those researching their family history.

*Please note that this is a payable search service in which customers will be required to register with GRONI. In addition PRONI only offers a search service of the database. Copies of Birth/Death and Marriage Certificates must be requested direct from GRONI.

For further information on Births, Deaths and Marriages Certificates, visit the GRONI website.

COMMENT: This announcement effectively does two things - it allows for a more centralised GRONI access point in Belfast, considering that the main facility is due to move out of the town centre shortly - and it effectively consolidates PRONI's search room into a full family history hub, much in the way the ScotlandsPeople Centre in Edinburgh acts.

PRONI now offers access to parish material, civil BMD records and archive material for Northern Ireland, all on one floor in the same building. Note that whilst some of the historic civil records can be accessed via the GENI site at https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/ and the new online offering from the southern government at www.irishgenealogy.ie, the access offered by GRONI itself in Belfast does not follow the same online closure periods of births over 100 years old, marriages over 75 years old, and deaths over 50 - which means that records (almost) up to the present day can be consulted. And that is important in particular from 1922 onwards, where GRONI is the sole national body holding such records for the north.

Another major development in Belfast!

Chris

For details on my genealogy guide books, including A Beginner's Guide to British and Irish Genealogy, A Decade of Irish Centenaries: Researching Ireland 1912-1923, Discover Scottish Church Records (2nd edition), Discover Irish Land Records and Down and Out in Scotland: Researching Ancestral Crisis, please visit http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/p/my-books.html.

More on historic Irish BMD records release

I've had a day now to play with the new historic birth, marriage and death records release from www.IrishGenealogy.ie (see http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/historic-irish-bmd-records-freely.html), and I have to admit, for what is there, I'm seriously impressed - and not just because they are free

First, though, it is worth stating what is not there. The records in Ireland have historically been indexed by the General Register Office in Ireland by year, quarter, registration district, volume number and page number. At present you have to order record copies from the GRO by paper based application (including writing down credit card info on the application form), and then receive a copy either in the post or by email. In recent times, however, a separate project by the Health Services Executive has seen the records digitised for instant online purchase (with an ability to pay for them online). This is an ongoing programme, with many of the historic images still to be scanned, but for those that have been digitised a new index reference is given, called a Group ID number. It is these digitised records that are now freely available on the IrishGenealogy.ie site, but as the project has not been completed yet, many records are not yet available. From what I can see, digitised images of nearly all birth records from 1864-1915 are online, but only the later marriage records (up to 1940) and death records (up to 1965), so there are more to come. The bottom line when searching is that if a record is presented with a Group ID number, there will be an accompanying record image you can click through to; if only a year, quarter, registration district, volume and page number are presented, there is no image - yet.

So what is there? Well, as noted, virtually all births records from 1864 to 1915, and many later marriage and death records. Perhaps the most completely astonishing aspect of this release is that not only are records from the modern Republic of Ireland available, but also records for what now constitutes Northern Ireland. Not too long ago the GRO in Belfast was widely applauded for making available online digitised images of northern records via the pay-per-view GENI platform at https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk. The new IrishGenealogy.ie site, by making these records available for free, will undoubtedly seriously impact on the income now going towards the GRONI. I suspect there might be some anger north of the border as a consequence, but for genies worldwide, Christmas just came early!

Bear in mind that the government in the south of Ireland only holds copies of records for the north for the period when Ireland was undivided, just prior to 1922, so GENI will still be relevant for later records, and for the earlier marriages and death records for the north not yet added to the IrishGenealogy.ie site. All Northern Irish records to the present day are also available to view at the GRONI's search centre itself in Belfast. I should say though, that I spent all of yesterday concentrating on northern based research on the IrishGenealogy.ie site, just in case those records get pulled at any point, if there is a backlash.

Another huge casualty will undoubtedly be RootsIreland (www.rootsireland.ie), which until now has been the cheapest way to obtain transcript information of civil registration records from many parts of the country. As with the recent launch of free to access pre-1880 Roman Catholic registers (http://registers.nli.ie), RootsIreland is rapidly losing its monopoly to be the sole gatekeeper of the national ancestral record, which it has enjoyed for so long. Some might argue that this is not necessarily a bad thing. Ironically, that site seems to have finally got its act together, in terms of its pricing and the access restrictions now lifted, but quite possibly with too little movement in the right direction, far too late.

On the IrishGenealogy.ie presentations themselves, one of the greatest aspects is that entire pages from the register volumes are presented, not cropped images of individual records, as with GENI. This not only means that you will avoid instances of some info being missed by cropping, but also you may find instances of multiple births that you weren't expecting - such as the discovery of a twin for my great grandfather in Belfast yesterday, who did not survive infancy. The pages are also presented in PDF format, easily saved to a computer (GENI threatens universal armageddon if you even think about saving a copy!), and in most cases they are easily legible. Remember that in addition to the basic search feature on the site, there is an advanced search facility which can help you to control searches more, which I have found particularly useful.

Quite why the Republic's government did not add a payment tier is beyond me (it could have made a small fortune from its worldwide diaspora by charging just a Euro per record, and still utterly transformed access) but it hasn't. So get in whilst the iron is hot - especially for those northern records!

NB: It's worth adding the official release of the records is actually later today, at 5.30pm, Thursday 8th September 2016.

(With thanks to the Irish Government for the release, and to Claire Santry for first breaking the newsof their early release yesterday)

UPDATE: From Claire's blog, the coverage is currently confirmed as

• Births: 1864 to 1915
  
• Marriages: 1882 to 1940
  
• Deaths: 1891 to 1965

See http://www.irishgenealogynews.com/2016/09/irelands-historical-registers-of-birth.html

(With thanks to Claire)

Chris
 
For details on my genealogy guide books, including A Decade of Irish Centenaries: Researching Ireland 1912-1923, Discover Scottish Church Records (2nd edition), Discover Irish Land Records and Down and Out in Scotland: Researching Ancestral Crisis, please visit http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/p/my-books.html.

GRO Belfast search room reopens after passports pressure

The General Register Office for Northern Ireland has reopened its public search room, having been forced to temporarily close it in recent weeks, such was the demand for birth certificates for Irish passport applications on the back of the Brexit vote.

For the full story visit the Irish News story at www.irishnews.com/news/2016/07/19/news/-high-demand-for-birth-certificates-in-the-wake-of-brexit-610940/.

I have been one of those who has applied for Irish passports, as have my two sons. For details on how we have sought to do so, please visit http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/claiming-irish-passport.html.

Chris

For details on my genealogy guide books, including A Decade of Irish Centenaries: Researching Ireland 1912-1923, Discover Scottish Church Records (2nd edition), Discover Irish Land Records and Down and Out in Scotland: Researching Ancestral Crisis, please visit http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/p/my-books.html.

Claiming an Irish passport - Part 2

Having decided now to apply for an Irish passport (see http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/claiming-irish-passport-1.html), it's time to get underway.

The first step is to get the relevant application forms. The Citizens Information website at http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/travel_abroad/passports/applying_for_or_renewing_an_irish_passport.html describes the basic process for application - on this it notes that because I live outside of the Republic of Ireland, I must obtain an APS2 form, but this is unfortunately not available online.

The advice on this Citizens Information page states that "If you are living abroad you can apply in person or using ordinary or registered post to your nearest Irish embassy or consulate."  Living in Scotland, the nearest consulate to me is in Edinburgh, and so a quick search on Google reveals the relevant passport page on its website at https://www.dfa.ie/irish-consulate/edinburgh/passports/how-to-apply-for-a-passport/. On this I was advised to contact them by email, with my home address, to request copies of the required number of APS2 forms.

Having done so, within an hour I received an email from Edinburgh notifying me that the required form will be sent by post to me this evening. We're under way! I am also advised that at present, the turn around time for successful applications is 7 weeks, although a priority service is available at additional cost. I'm happy with the seven weeks, thanks. :)

Under the Documents tab on this same page, there is a list of accompanying document types that I will need. As I am applying for an Irish passport for the first time, I am advised that I will need to obtain a copy of my long form birth certificate from the General Register Office of Northern Ireland to prove that I was indeed born in Northern Ireland. This can be done via the GENI website at https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/. (NB: If I was a woman I would also need to obtain a civil marriage or civil partnership certificate, if my name was now different to that shown on my birth cert).

On the GENI website, rather than use the top section I would normally use to Search registrations for genealogical research, I instead need to order a birth cert from the Order Certificates section. This can all be done online, which takes a couple of minutes, as I step through various pages, providing my name, date and place of birth, and the details of my parents. Once completed, I am charged £15 all in. As I am not paying for priority postage, I am notified that it will be sent out to me by second class post.

Note that I am applying to the GRONI in Belfast because of my Northern Irish birth, but if I was from the Republic of Ireland, I would need to apply to the separate General Register Office of Ireland to obtain the southern equivalent - to do so, visit https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Apply-for-Certificates.aspx, although this is a snail mail version for which payment cannot be made online. To pay online, visit http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/1/bdm/Certificates/ instead.

So I've ordered the relevant application form, and a copy of my birth certificate. Now I need to wait for them to arrive...!

NB:
PART 3 at http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/claiming-irish-passport-part-3.html 
PART 4 at http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/claiming-irish-passport-part-4-claimed.html

Chris

For details on my genealogy guide books, including A Decade of Irish Centenaries: Researching Ireland 1912-1923, Discover Scottish Church Records (2nd edition), Discover Irish Land Records and Down and Out in Scotland: Researching Ancestral Crisis, please visit http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/p/my-books.html.

Price increase on Northern Irish GENI website

Whilst I had noted previously on this blog that it was on the cards for the start of this month, I haven't as yet confirmed that it had happened - but after a day using the Northern Irish GRO's GENI website (https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk), the prices have now most definitely gone up! Credits now cost 50p each, up 10p from the previous 40p. One credit will allow you to see a partial transcript of births, marriages and deaths records, whilst 5 credits will allow you to see an image of the original full record - i.e. at a cost of £2.50, up from the previous £2 - subject to certain imposed online closure periods (births over 100 years, marriages over 75 years, deaths over 50).

Note that to get the best in terms of a basic free search on the site, without paying anything you can see dates and some other very basic data (e.g. mother's maiden name on birth records) but only if you have at least one credit on your account.

Chris

My next Scotland 1750-1850: Beyond the OPRs course starts Monday 17th May - see http://pharostutors.com/details.php?coursenumber=302. For details on my genealogy guide books, including A Decade of Irish Centenaries: Researching Ireland 1912-1923, Discover Scottish Church Records (2nd edition), Discover Irish Land Records and Down and Out in Scotland: Researching Ancestral Crisis, please visit http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/p/my-books.html.

GRONI fees changes confirmed in Northern Ireland

The fees charged by the General Register Office for Northern Ireland (https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/information-and-services/family-history-heritage-and-museums/research-family-history-general) are set to change from April 4th, with some good news and some bad. The good news is that the cost of certificates will remain unchanged, and the search room fee of £7 is set to be removed for use of GRONI's facility in Belfast. The bad news is that the cost of online historic certificate images, as hosted on the GENI platform at https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk is set to rise - credits will increase from 40p to 50p, meaning that a historic certificate image will rise to £2.50 from £2.

For full details on the changes - and how to save a bit of money on GENI by buying credits up quickly! - please visit the North of Ireland Family History Society's Facebook post at https://www.facebook.com/notes/north-of-ireland-family-history-society/groni-fee-changes-confirmed/1053396834719070

(With thanks to the NIFHS)

Chris

For details on my genealogy guide books, including A Decade of Irish Centenaries: Researching Ireland 1912-1923, Discover Scottish Church Records (2nd edition), Discover Irish Land Records and Down and Out in Scotland: Researching Ancestral Crisis, please visit http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/p/my-books.html. My Pinterest account is at https://www.pinterest.com/chrismpaton/.

General Record Office Northern Ireland to move premises

At the PRONI stakeholder forum meeting yesterday, Alison McQueen from the General Register Office of Northern Ireland (http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/general-register-office-for-northern-ireland) informed us that GRONI will be relocating from its current premises at Chichester Street, Belfast, to Colby House on the Stranmillis Road later this year. There will be a search room at the new facility which will have a similar capacity to the current set up available. There will apparently be visitor parking, although it was emphasised that this is not for GRONI alone, but for all agencies at Colby House.

Amongst other developments, the organisation currently does not have a registrar general, with Dr. Tracy Power handling the role in a temporary capacity at present. Interviews are currently being held for a permanent replacement.

A new fees order is also due to be discussed on April 5th. The cost of birth, marriage and death certificates are not going to go up in price, and it looks like a search fee in the main search room may be dispensed with, although other costs may be revised if the debate goes ahead at the Northern Irish Assembly as planned.

Finally, GRONI (along with PRONI) will not be attending Who Do You Think You Are? Live this year in Birmingham.

(With thanks to Alison McQueen)

Chris

For details on my genealogy guide books, including A Decade of Irish Centenaries: Researching Ireland 1912-1923, Discover Scottish Church Records (2nd edition), Discover Irish Land Records and Down and Out in Scotland: Researching Ancestral Crisis, please visit http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/p/my-books.html. My Pinterest account is at https://www.pinterest.com/chrismpaton/.

Northern Ireland's PRONI archive uploads Your Family Tree lecture series to YouTube

The Public Records Office of Northern Ireland (PRONI) has added recordings of its recent lecture series entitled Your Family Tree to its dedicated YouTube channel. Details of the talks, with links to each on YouTube, are located at www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_the_archives/proni-on-youtube/your_family_tree_lecture_series.htm.

The talks were as follows:

Part 1 - Getting Started by Janet Hancock
Part 2 - Using Street Directories by Des McCabe
Part 3 - Using Church Records by Valerie Adams
Part 4 - Tracing World War One Ancestors by Ian Montgomery
Part 5 - Using Education Records by Valerie Adams
Part 6 - Using Workhouse Records by Janet Hancock
Part 7 - Using Valuation Records by William MacAfee
Part 8 - Using Landed Estate Records by Stephen Scarth
Part 9 - Using Court, Prison and Coroners Records by Wesley Geddis
Part 10 - Using the General Register Office by Emma Elliott

The YouTube channel itself is accessible at https://www.youtube.com/user/PRONIonline

(With thanks to Claire Santry)

Chris

The latest British GENES podcast is available at http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/p/podcasts.html. For details on my latest book Down and Out in Scotland: Researching Ancestral Crisis, and my other genealogy guide books, please visit http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/p/my-books.html.

Irish Genealogy website civil BMD indexes back online

Following the recent comedy of errors from the Republic of Ireland's General Register Office, whereby it uploaded a series of birth, marriage and death indexes that nearly caused the Information Commissioner's office to have a coronary over the issue of privacy, the Irish Genealogy website is once again offerings access to BMD indexes for civil registration records in the Republic of Ireland (and for Northern Ireland up to partition). The tool is available at www.irishgenealogy.ie.

Before accessing them you have to confirm that you are doing a search as facilitated by "Section 61 of the Civil Registration Act, 2004" which "provides for a member of the public to make an application to an tArd-Chláraitheoir to search the indexes to the Births, Deaths and Marriages registers." It seems an unnecessary task, but anything for a quiet life.

You are then taken to a search screen. The records available are similar to those on the Northern Irish GENI site: "The Indexes to the Civil Records of Irish Births, Deaths and Marriages date from 1864 with non-Roman Catholic Marriages recorded from 1845. The indexes to Births over 100 years old, the indexes to Marriages over 75 years old and the indexes to Deaths over 50 years old." The difference is that these are only indexes, not the digitised images from the registers as in the north.

The detail available in the indexes is outlined at http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/what-information-is-on-the-indexes-that-are-on-line. For information on how to apply for photocopies or formal certificate copies of the records, visit http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/i-want-to-get-a-copy-of-a-certificate-what-do-i-do - but do check out https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk for the pre-Partition Northern Irish entries (counties Antrim, Down, Fermanagh, Armagh, Tyrone and Londonderry), as the register images are available, and will be much cheaper.

The new indexes are not particularly user friendly, although the birth records from 1900-1914 do include mothers' maiden names, and you can search for marriages with two surnames. Note that Irish indexes beyond the stated closure periods for births and marriages on Irish Genealogy are in fact available on FamilySearch, Ancestry and FindmyPast, all the way up to 1958. Don't ask!

(With thanks to the North of Ireland Family History Society via Facebook)

Chris

For details on my latest book Down and Out in Scotland: Researching Ancestral Crisis, and my other genealogy guide books please visit http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/p/my-books.html. To commission me for genealogical research, please visit my research site at www.scotlandsgreateststory.co.uk.

Paving the way to a GRO based England's and Wales' People style service

The London based Society of Genealogists (www.sog.org.uk) is reporting that the Westminster Government has accepted an amendment to its Deregulation Bill which will allow for the publication of information from GRO issued vital registers for births, marriages and deaths in England and Wales, in a manner beyond the issue of a formally certified, and expensive, certificate.

At the moment genealogists in England and Wales are second class citizens within the United Kingdom when it comes to accessing historic records, which cost £10 each to purchase from local superintendent registrars' services, or £9.25 each from the English and Welsh GRO based at Southport (www.gro.gov.uk). By contrast, although official Scottish certificates are £12 each, and Northern Irish certificates are £15 each, there are alternative, and much cheaper means of access - for Scotland, via the ScotlandsPeople website (www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk) and the ScotlandsPeople Centre service (www.scotlandspeoplehub.gov.uk), and in Northern Ireland via the GENI service at www.geni.nidirect.gov.uk, the search room facility at the GRONI in Belfast (www.nidirect.gov.uk/gro), as well as a cheap photocopy extract service for pre-1922 BMD records provided by the GRO in the Republic of Ireland (www.welfare.ie/en/pages/general-register-office.aspx).

Commenting on the announcement, the SoG's genealogist Else Churchill said “Having worked for over 15 years to reform the GRO system and to gain better access to this vital information for family historians in non-certified form I am delighted that the Government has at last paved the way for a more efficient and cost effective service encompassing modern technology.” The full announcement, including discussion from the parliamentary proceedings via Hansard, is accessible at www.sog.org.uk/news/article/gro-information-on-births-marriages-and-death-doesnt-have-to-on-expensive-c.

Whilst this announcement does not in itself create an England's and Wales' People type service, it does remove the barrier to such a provision being made. For too long those seeking ancestral records from England and Wales have been ignored in seeking a solution, and should no longer be discriminated against on economic grounds simply because they wish to note who their ancestors were. It will be interesting to see how - and indeed, if - this develops further.

(With thanks to the SoG and the FFHS)

Chris

For details on my range of genealogy guide books please visit http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/p/my-books.html. To commission me for genealogical research, please visit my research site at www.scotlandsgreateststory.co.uk.

Recent UK death indexes released on Ancestry

Ancestry (www.ancestry.co.uk) has released a couple of interesting, if not somewhat bewildering, death indexes on its site, as follows:

Scotland and Northern Ireland, Death Index, 1989-2013
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=60631

England and Wales, Death Index, 2007-2013
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=60630

The source has simply been listed as 'Various sources', however, genealogist Karen Cummings (@CummingsPFH) has contacted Ancestry via Twitter to ask what the source is, to which they have responded "The source of this collection is GreyPower Deceased Data, compiled by Wilmington Millennium". Wilmington Millenium appears to be this company online at www.wilmingtonmillennium.co.uk, noted as offering "intelligent consumer data suppression and lead generation products created in conjunction with leading industry partners". There is no mention of a partnership with Ancestry on its site however.

A typical search yields the following info - name, gender, age, birth date (variously reported as a year or with the full date), death date, residential place at death, and a postal code district.

Without a decent provenance for the source, i.e. any understanding of what it is, I would suggest that any entries on this be treated simply as a finding aid that should be pursued via the usual sources through the three respective General Register Offices of the UK. These are as follows:

Scotland - records can be ordered via www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk (£12 each)
Northern Ireland - via www.nidirect.gov.uk/general-register-office-for-northern-ireland (£15 each)
England and Wales - via www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content (£9.25 each)

Scottish finds can be partially corroborated online via ScotlandsPeople (www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk), which does index death records within the last 50 years, but does not provide the digitised register images, as with earlier records. (All records, including up to the present day, can be accessed at the ScotlandsPeople Centre in Edinburgh, or at other centres in Scotland providing access to the same database, for £15 unlimited access). No online GRO indexes are available for Northern Ireland in this period, nor for England and Wales.

I have read many reports from users saying that the databases are not complete. Scotland seems to be better covered than Northern Ireland, and my own mother's death, in Manchester, England, in November 2013, is not included. I have found my grandmother's death in Carrickfergus - her date of death is given as 22 JUL 2011, and her birth year as 1922, both correct. her name is simply given as Mrs Martha Graham though - her full name was in fact Martha Jane Elizabeth Watton Bill Smyth, so don't be expecting too much in the detail!

So it is an interesting resource, one that needs handling with caution, but potentially useful. But no substitute for the placing of indexes online by the English, Welsh and Northern Irish GROs, as has been done by Scotland via ScotlandsPeople.

Chris

For details on my range of genealogy guide books please visit http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/p/my-books.html. To commission me for genealogical research, please visit my research site at www.scotlandsgreateststory.co.uk.

Stored searches problem on GRONI records platform

It looks like the demand on GRONI's new Northern Irish BMD records platform (see http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/more-on-groni-northern-irish-bmd.html) is causing a few problems with the system. Several users have commented that they have been unable to access previously viewed images, which should be available for 72 hours after purchase. I've only had this with one image, but have certainly encountered it.

GRONI is now telling folk that there is a problem with their stored search facility, but that their IT people expect to have it resolved by Friday April 4th. They have also stated that people who are experiencing the problem will be able to access the images for 72 hours once they have been restored. Let's hope the gremlins go quickly...!

(With thanks to Rootschat.com)

Chris

Time to find your inner Irish...! All the best online Irish genealogy resources can be found through my book Tracing Your Irish Family History on the Internet - in print and ebook formats. "Very useful, makes me wish I was Irish!" - Saint Patrick, patron saint.

More on GRONI's Northern Irish BMD records platform

Last night I spent ages on the new GRONI genealogy records platform (https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/), which is offering access to civil registered BMD events from Northern Ireland from 1845. I wrote an introductory review on first impressions last night at http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/groni-launches-online-civil-records.html.

I spent about £60 on the site last night, utterly transforming many branches of my personal family history research in Northern Ireland. Some further thoughts and tips:

1) In most cases I did not need to bother using the enhanced search at an extra credit (40p). I simply used the basic search and then purchased the full record from that point. The indexes were in most cases detailed enough - I could do parental searches, to seek children not before known about, including the amazing revelation (for me) that my 2 x great grandfather Ernest Graham was a twin. I told my Melbourne based cousin about this (also a Graham) - she found this hilarious as she has recently had twins herself. Not sure how she'll react when I tell her that Ernest's parents had two sets of twins!

2) In some lines, where I was not so desperate to see the full record, I used the enhanced results at 40p each to view. These did the job, with enough detail to help me to eliminate possibilities in a couple of circumstances where there were a fair few options.

3) You cannot access the basic search results without any credits. However, unlike ScotlandsPeople, which charges £7 for 30 credits, the minimum spend required to access the basic (free) search facility is a purchase of just one credit at 40p - not per record, but to access the facility in general. In other words, free search results will be available as long as you have 40p - 1 credit - on your account. Bear in mind that with the free search facility you can work out the names of children to two parents, with birth dates, and more. It's not perfect - I was surprised to see a second family with the father's surname as Graham and the mother's maiden name as Halliday - but it is considerably better than what has been available before.

4) Death searches are the hardest to control, not so much because of the site, but because of the nature of Northern Irish records, which like the English and Welsh records offer little by way of corroborative genealogical details. One aspect here that I don't rate on the site though is the facility offering a chance to put in an exact date of birth - a year with a plus or minus range would certainly help here instead. It is possible to do the maths with the basic search returns, as an age is given, but I could do with an easier life!

5) I have had feedback from a reader that there may be issues with iPad access. I did use the site with my iPad last night to access basic search results, but I did not attempt to purchase and view images, and I was already registered. On that limited basis, I had no problems, but if anybody else has any comments on that, I would be grateful to hear them.

6) A five year search range is just frustrating, and could at least be expanded to decade long framed searches. Bear in mind the old poles and spaces analogy from school - its 5 year range means that if you chose 1892 as the lower year, the upper year should be 1896, not 1897 (1892, 1893, 1894, 1895, 1896 as the 5 years.)

7) I have read quite a few negative threads on a couple of forums about the new platform, commenting primarily that it isn't ScotlandsPeople, and that it isn't the sexiest looking site. On the latter I agree (I described it as a passion killer in my previous thread!) - but on the former, there was no obligation for it to be a ScotlandsPeople clone. The site was inspired by ScotlandsPeople - the GRONI actually visited Edinburgh to take advice - but it has clearly done its own thing. Some aspects of GRONI's site are in fact better than ScotlandsPeople - a minimum spend of 40p being the ultimate example. On the other hand, I don't understand the logic in not allowing downloads of the records - does GRONI think people are so flush with cash that having paid to see a digital copy of the record they will then pay to see paper copies?

I spent about £60 last night, resolving many brick wall situations I have had for years. In all those searches I chose two wrong records, both of them death records where it was worth a punt. The death of my four times great grandfather, Thomas Graham, still eludes me, though I have now further narrowed it down to a six year range thanks to events with siblings and his widowed wife noting when he was alive and dead. Two other lines have now been pushed back into the late 1700s thanks to discoveries made, and several ancestors' deaths have finally been located after years of being in the void. This researcher will most definitely see the new site as very positive thing, albeit one that will hopefully evolve in due course to correct some minor irritations for its users. By far the biggest issue is the inability to download images, or to at least create a digital account for folks using the site, as with ScotlandsPeople. People are going to flout the no screengrabs facility - of course they are - if such a draconian rule is not amended to be a bit more user friendly; and having spent £60 or so last night, I have absolutely no intention of paying more for paper copies! So this could certainly do with being looked at again.

Incidentally, with respect to the online closure periods for access to record categories - these are not implemented if you visit the GRONI in Belfast, meaning you can look for much more recent births, marriages and deaths.

Chris

Time to find your inner Irish...! All the best online Irish genealogy resources can be found through my book Tracing Your Irish Family History on the Internet - in print and ebook formats. "Very useful, makes me wish I was Irish!" - Saint Patrick, patron saint.

GRONI launches online civil records platform

I've just spent the day in Glasgow researching a family with connections to both Scotland and Ulster. The Scottish end is just about resolved - if only there was a handy online one stop shop for Northern Irish vital records?

Et voila! At long last, the new ScotlandsPeople style records site from the General Register Office for Northern Ireland is up and running at http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/family-history. I've just done a test purchase and so far so good.

You need to register with the site first, before you can begin. To do so, visit https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/Account/Register. Once sorted, you can now start to search the records at the main platform page at https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/

The site is inspired by ScotlandsPeople - but it is not ScotlandsPeople, the mechanics are quite a bit different. You can search for records and view records, but it appears that you cannot download those records. In fact, GRONI is quite specific about what you cannot do - if you right click on any record purchased, a message pops up stating GRONI prohibits the customer from printing images, downloading images, taking screen shots of images. For this reason, the only image I am using here is the basic search introduction page (I had hoped to show an illustrated walkthrough).

There are four search categories, including one that I was not aware was going to appear. These are:

Search for a birth registration
You can search for and view the record of any birth older than one hundred years

Search for a marriage registration
You can search for and view the record of any marriage older than seventy five years

Search for a death registration
You can search for and view the record of any death older than fifty years

Search for a WWII registration
You can search for any death from the period from 1939-1954.

And just to be entirely beautiful about the whole thing, GRONI have added a townland map facility for the whole of Northern Ireland at https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/TownlandMaps.

I did a test purchase for a marriage record, to test out the workings. The basic search was free. When the results were returned - there were two possibilities - I could have spent a credit at 40p to see an enhanced result, but I did not need to, as both the grooms' full names and the brides' surnames were both displayed in the free search result, allowing me to select the correct event. That was good enough for me, so I simply purchased the full record required for just £2. I could use a zoom box to magnify parts of the record, though I have found this to be a little glitchy.

The record purchased was from Omagh, and was given a digital registration number of M/1880/Y1/2262/40/140 by GRONI. I'm not quite sure what the 2262/40 refers to, but the 140 is definitely the entry number. The original classification number for the centralised copy at the GRO in Dublin was Jul-Sep 1880, Vol 2 p.193, but I think I'm right in saying that GRONI's marriage records are actually sourced from local registration offices in the north, not the GRO returns - I will need to double check that!

Some down sides - the thou shalt not edict about saving a copy gets worse, in that you only have a 72 hour period to see the record once purchased - unlike ScotlandsPeople, there is no permanent digital copy saved in your account by the looks of it. Despite the instructions, I suspect that as a consequence the Print Screen button is going to find favour with the descendants of many Northern Irish ancestors. And one thing about ScotlandsPeople was its very name - how inspiring! A mission statement that became a brand! Whereas, until I find a name for the service somewhere, the NI offering appears to be the Research family history at the General Register Office (NI) GRONI Order a Cert section. I won't lie. The name's a passion killer...

Despite these wee niggles, the new GRONI website is affordable, accessible from home, and about to revolutionise family history across the water - one can only hope that both the GRO in Dublin and Southport are paying very close attention to this.

Well done Belfast!

Chris

Time to find your inner Irish...! All the best online Irish genealogy resources can be found through my book Tracing Your Irish Family History on the Internet - in print and ebook formats. "Very useful, makes me wish I was Irish!" - Saint Patrick, patron saint.

The new GRO Northern Ireland records platform

Everything comes to those who wait!

The General Register Office of Northern Ireland is currently in London demonstrating its new ScotlandsPeople style records platform, and I`ve been able to have a wee look. Verdict - it`s going to be great!

The site will be very similar to the Scottish site, with closure periods for access to the birth records less than 100 years old, marriages less than 75 and deaths less than 50. On the down side, this unfortunately includes the indexes, not the case with Scotland. However, if all goes well the site will be up and running by early April (not March 14th as previously reported), and the cost will be 40p per enhanced search (a basic search will be free), and a record image £2 - these prices should be confirmed very soon.

Searches will return the following details:

Births
Basic search (free):
Registration district, year, surname, first forename, sex, mother`s maiden surname

Further details from Enhanced search (one credit):
Sub-district, district of birth, date of birth, child`s second forename, mother`s surname and forename, father`s surname and forename

Marriages
Basic search (free):
District, year, surname of subject of search, forename of subject of search

Further details from Enhanced (one credit):
Place of marriage, date of marriage, surnames and forenames of both parties to marriage, date of birth/age

Deaths
Basic search (free):
Registration district, year, surname, first forename, sex

Further details from Enhanced search (one credit):
Sub-district and district of death, date of death, second forename, date of birth/age at death, marital status

As can be seen, quite a lot of details will be available from an enhanced search alone, but the full certificate images will also add more, including occupations and addresses.

Keep an eye out, not long to go now! Although not yet active, the new website address granting access will be www.nidirect.gov.uk/family-history

Oh - and I hear the GRO in the Republic of Ireland is very interested to see how the northern platform works out. Will a southern equivalent soon be on the cards?!

(With thanks to GRONI)

Chris

My latest genealogy books are Tracing Your Family History on the Internet (2nd ed), Discover Scottish Civil Registration Records, and Tracing Your Irish Family History on the Internet. My next Pharos course is Scottish Research Online, which commences Feb 27th 2014, 5 weeks, price £45.99.

MAJOR news - GRONI online service details revealed - subject to final Assembly approval

YES!!!! The GRO in Belfast has listened to folk about its forthcoming online records service for post 1845/1864 records, and most importantly, its online costs will be affordable - VERY affordable - in comparison with the current situation. The North of Ireland Family History Society has a full report at https://www.facebook.com/notes/north-of-ireland-family-history-society/one-to-look-out-for-good-news-about-forthcoming-online-service-for-birth-marriag/656034277788663

A summary of the important bits!

• The site may be available from March 14th if all goes according to plan - final enabling legislation still has to approved by the NI Assembly at Stormont.
• For those not visiting the GRONI offices but searching from home, only “historic” records will be available. This means: births – over 100 years, marriages – over 75 years, deaths – over 50 years
• More recent records, ie right up to current registrations and after the 100/75/50 year cut-off dates for online access, will be available via computers in the Search Room at GRONI in Belfast.
• The basic index search will be free & has limited details such as the year of the event & some names to hopefully narrow down the results. An enhanced search is chargeable & will show the actual date as well as more names & details such as ages. You can then decide whether or not to pay to view the actual record.
• There will be an option to automatically search for name variants eg to search for Smith & Smyth in case different spellings were used.

And on cost:

• At the GRONI office, the Search Room access cost will reduce from £14 to £7 per day. The current verification process will be replaced by personal access to records via the computer terminals.
• Online, the basic index search will be free, the enhanced index search will cost 1 credit (£0.40) and viewing an actual record will cost 5 credits (£2.00).

Visit the society's page for the full details.

COMMENT: A wee bit more expensive than ScotlandsPeople, with a few more restrictions on access (unless going to Belfast). But Northern Ireland - this is OUR year for genealogy!!!!

Chris


My latest genealogy books are Tracing Your Family History on the Internet (2nd ed), Discover Scottish Civil Registration Records, and Tracing Your Irish Family History on the Internet. My next Pharos course is Scottish Research Online, which commences Feb 27th 2014, 5 weeks, price £45.99.

Why helping Ireland's genealogy provision to grow is not rocket science

Two articles today in the Irish press both highlight the recent dramatic growth in the provision of Irish genealogy resources online and the fact that the penny still does not seem to have quite dropped with what the genealogy scene could be, with a little more love and input from the powers that be.

Brian Donovan, CEO of Eneclann (www.eneclann.ie), has written an article in Ireland's Independent newspaper detailing the exponential growth of interest in the personal heritage sector, as recently explored at a Joint Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht meeting in Dublin. It's an excellent piece summarising where we are at now - including the contribution of Brian's own company and others in the field over the last few years - but at its heart you can feel the frustration about the lack of a penny having yet dropped from on high at the Dáil:

"The Government needs to familiarise itself with the genealogy business and what it means for the Irish economy. Currently we have an excellent opportunity to turn this country into a European genealogy hub -- rather like the phenomenon in Utah in the USA.

But this requires the Government and senior civil servants facilitating this development and enabling innovation by freeing access to historic records, changing data protection guidelines, empowering the cultural sector to partner with publishers and other innovators.

This will allow us to better connect to the diaspora. Remember, tens of millions of people worldwide have an emotional connection to this island that other countries can only envy. But to maintain these connections with successive generations and strengthen these links, we need to connect these people to their personal heritage."

The full article is available at http://www.independent.ie/business/back-to-our-roots-weve-the-chance-to-be-the-hub-of-a-millioneuro-history-business-29872399.html.

Also online is a blog post from Irish genie John Grenham concerning Northern Ireland's Valuation Records (thanks to John Reid's blog for flagging this). Again there is a sense of frustration, often expressed in John's blog, at how Northern Ireland is beginning to grab the bull by the horns whilst the Republic is still trying to work out which field it is in. In this case he cites the brilliant upload of the Valuation Records on the PRONI website, and notes that "We can only hope that, as with the General Register of Northern Ireland, the example of the North might shame us into action." John's post is at http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/irishroots/2013/12/30/valuation-office-records-how-it-should-be/.

To be fair, the National Archives of Ireland is slowly beginning to get on top of things in the Republic. Whilst its online catalogue falls woefully far behind equivalents on offer in Northern Ireland or in Britain, many useful digitisation projects are soon to appear online via its www.genealogy.nationalarchives.ie platform. But it remains the case that records of births, marriages and deaths are the very bread and butter of genealogy. GRONI in Belfast will soon launch an online digitised image service (but will it price its service at the ridiculous end of the scale, as it does with its paper certificates?), whilst the GRO in the south is soon to add a new set of indexes online via www.irishgenealogy.ie - but when will it also see fit to place its digitised register records online through a similar service? And as for parish records, when will the National Library of Ireland get its Roman Catholic records digitised and placed online (long posited by it as a project), and when will someone in power finally realise that what we want to see are digitised original images from registers, not outrageously expensive transcripts from a project first conceived a generation ago?

A lot has happened in the Irish genealogy scene in the last few years - a hell of a lot has happened - but there is so much more to be done. But the biggest change of heart still has to come from the state itself. Let the penny drop lads, and reap the rewards.

Chris

My latest book, Discover Scottish Civil Registration Records, is now available from http://www.gould.com.au (print) and http://www.gen-ebooks.com/unlock-the-past.html (ebook), whilst Tracing Your Irish Family History on the Internet is available at http://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/Tracing-Your-Irish-History-on-the-Internet/p/3889/.

GRONI v PRONI in Belfast - worlds apart?!

I've not been back to the GRO facilities in Belfast or Dublin for many years. A visit to one left me with a facial tick that took several years to rid myself off, whilst a visit to the other led to aggressive verbal incontinence for months that not even a fully trained labrador with a factory supply of Andrex could keep up with! That was some eight to ten years back - but I've been assured by many that conditions at both are much improved. Thanks to the GRO Roscommon ordering facility I have not needed to return to either, so have simply taken people's words for it.

When I discuss visiting archives, in recent times I have been holding PRONI up in Belfast as just one of the best in the UK, never mind Northern Ireland. New PRONI gets the genie thing these days in the way that old PRONI just didn't!  But don't take my word for it - read Jan Powell's account of her research trip to Belfast at http://www.rellyseeker.net/blog/archive-visits-in-northern.html. Jan equally praises PRONI to the high heavens - but take a look at her comments on GRONI, and in particular her comments about the computer system, and the frankly UNBELIEVABLE conditions about the use of iPads!

Oh - my - God!

Let's hope someone at GRONI reads it also...!

(With thanks to Jan, who also has a lot of great things to say about the Mitchell in Glasgow in her post!)

Chris

My new book, Tracing Your Irish Family History on the Internet, is now available from Pen and Sword. My Scottish land and church records ebooks are available at http://www.gen-ebooks.com/unlock-the-past.html, whilst my next Pharos Scottish course, Scottish Research Online, starts Sep 4th - see http://pharostutors.com/details.php?coursenumber=102. Time to smash a few brick walls...!